(no subject)

[jawnbc]

 I find the culture war between atheists and persons of faith tiresome. Significantly because I find most strident people will, at some point, rather stridently make it clear that some aspect of me is unacceptable to them. But also because the debate leaves little room for me.

Because I am a person of belief.

I am not a person of faith. My belief in a creator doesn't fit into any narratives or notions of deities, and I've no interest in seeking a community of like-minded believers. I don't feel a need to cultivate a relationship through prayer with anyone or anything. And I'm not looking for any metaphysical explanations for what happens in my life. 

But I believe. I would have described myself as a intelligent design person before some religionists hadn't poisoned that well. Believing this doesn't require I understand any of it either.

There is one thing I'm strident about though: secular pluralism. It's the only thing that can same humanity.

Comments

[furrbear.livejournal.com]

And the people said... Amen.

Some folks need labels so I tell them I'm a Zen Episcopagan. The bafflegasted look alone is worth it.

[kent4str.livejournal.com]

Well put. I usually tell people I'm Utilitarian. If something works I'll use it. And it usually ends up confused with Unitarian, which is fine with me.

And you should hear some of the arguments I get into with some of the fundamemtalists in my family. Things like, "Prayer denies the omniscience of God. Discuss."

What really makes me go "huh?" are the militant athiests. Demanding that no one try to force religion on them in one breath and vehemently trying to force their lack of religion (which, technically, is a religion) on others in the next. I don't get it.

[bitterlawngnome.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to become a militant agnostic, the arguments for atheism are just as illogical as the arguments for theism. You cannot prove the existence of a metasystem from inside a system, the end. You cannot prove or disprove the existence of something beyond logic, using logic, the end.

[tilia-tomentosa.livejournal.com]

Well said! :)

[saintcahier.livejournal.com]

Well, this has been said to the exhaustion, but you cannot also logically disprove the existence of the gnomes, Santa Claus or the monster-under-the-bed. There is such a thing as "onus of proof".

That said, I can completely accept that anyone believe whatever he chooses, even when it is illogical.

(Though sometimes I have to suppress my laughter, sometimes my tears...)

[bitterlawngnome.livejournal.com]

Not quite the same though, since god is defined as being omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc that gnomes are not - which means ze necessarily operates on a field that is outside of the rules of logic. The very "question" is asked in such a way that it cannot be "answered" from within the frame of reference available to us as humans.

[tilia-tomentosa.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I'm tired of that too.

I live in a society where we have perfectly secular homophobia and perfectly secular sexism - the "cultural heritage" of the communist era (the Soviet type of communist rule was very aggressively atheistic, unlike the Yugoslavian type). I don't believe that getting rid of religion automatically means getting rid of patriarchal mentality - and people don't believe me.

[snousle.livejournal.com]

Vocal atheists remind me of deaf people trying to criticize music. They feel the rumble and see the effects, but they can never really "get" it.

I would consider myself seriously god-impaired, but to align myself with the whole atheist resurgence thing would be too embarrassing to contemplate. That there is something in other people's hearts that is not in mine is okey-dokey with me.

As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between truth and power; I am a scientist/materialist because, and only because, I've been rewarded for it. Others have had a rather different experience.